Hi Karl & Andy,

On 08/04/2012 06:43 AM, Andy Sharp wrote:

I think it's a matter of the list software isn't sending emails to the original sender, regardless of the setting for that user. The same happened to me with a patch set I sent on Wednesday. They all went to the list, based on looking in the online archive, even though I never got those

If you see your email in the archive and/or patchwork (note only patches and comments on patches will make it into patchwork - also that Patchwork will drop patches containing 'funny (non-ASCII)' characters) then the list is processing it correctly.

We are currently looking into a home-brew patchwork replacement to augment how we process patches via the mailing list. Comments are appreciated:

http://www.denx.de/wiki/view/U-Boot/ToolsPatchTracking

emails in my own mailbox. I also got a couple of weird bounces ... something about it being a moderated list for about half of the six emails. Weird.

emails over, I think, about 100kB need approval before being forwarded to the list. Wolfgang, since these appear to be rather rare, can this limit be dropped, at least for a little while to test the impact?

I see several patches from you over recent days, including the re-submissions, so my guess is the same is happening to you.

So do I - big thanks for the documentation updates, they all too often get overlooked.

Regards,

Graeme

Cheers,

a

On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Karl O. Pinc kop@meme.com wrote:

...

Hi,

As a beginner here I have to say it's really surprising the way the list disappears patches sent to the list. Usually when you send an email you expect it to be delivered.

I'm sure you have your reasons for this behavior but I thought I'd comment anyway.

As a suggestion, if the patch won't go to the list for comment perhaps there's a way to send an ack back to the sender to let them know what will happen next?

Regards,

Karl kop@meme.com Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein

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U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot

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U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot

On 08/03/2012 05:46:56 PM, Wolfgang Denk wrote:

I have no diea why there are two people (Karl and Any) appear to have problems with list delivery - I cannot see any such problems. As far as I can tell, all their messages have been properly delivered to the list and the archives. I tend to believe these are local problems on their own end, but without precise error reports I don;t ieen have a clue what to look for.

The trouble is getting a patch message back from the list when you send a patch in. For example I sent 1344017124-5749-1-git-send-email-kop@meme.com [PATCH v2] README: Add handy kermit primer The mail logs show the message going out, but nothing ever comes back with that message id. (Of course I don't see the message id if my system rejects the inbound message, but why would it reject just my patches from the list?)

Perhaps it's because git send-email automatically cc-s me, so the list decides not to send the patch back? I've added myself as a cc to this message to see if that matters.

In any case it's not a big deal. It's just, odd. If you really care you can look at your logs and watch the above message id come in and what happens to it.

Regards,

Karl kop@meme.com Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein

Dear Wolfgang,

On 08/04/2012 08:35:49 AM, Wolfgang Denk wrote:

In message 1344041771.12337.2@mofo you wrote:

...

The trouble is getting a patch message back from the list when you send a patch in. For example I sent

Why would you want to get your own messages back? You already know what you sent, don't you?

Because I always get all my own messages back, except for patches. Duplicate elimination is different from whether the list sends you back your own messages.

...

1344017124-5749-1-git-send-email-kop@meme.com [PATCH v2] README: Add handy kermit primer

Yes, and as you can see for example from the list archive at gmane that has been properly deliverd; also your V2 of it:

Yes. That was never an issue. (I can see how you might think it is an issue. People say their messages "do not go to the list" because they look in their email inbox and do not see the list sending them the message.)

...

The mail logs show the message going out, but nothing ever comes back with that message id.

Why should it?

See above.

...

Perhaps it's because git send-email automatically cc-s me, so the list decides not to send the patch back? I've added myself as a cc to this message to see if that matters.

Your registration in the mailing list has the "nodupes" flag set, which is documented as:

Avoid duplicate copies of messages?

When you are listed explicitly in the To: or Cc: headers of a list message, you can opt to not receive another copy from the mailing list. Select Yes to avoid receiving copies from the mailing list; select No to receive copies.

If the list has member personalized messages enabled, and you elect to receive copies, every copy will have a X-Mailman-Copy: yes header added to it.

You selected that you don't want dupes, so you should not complain that you don't get dupes.

Ah, but I didn't "select" this configuration. I got the default configuration without ever knowing what I got.

...

In any case it's not a big deal. It's just, odd.

It is the configuration you selected. If you don't like it, then go to the list page, click on "edit options", and change your settings. Most people prefer it tis way, though.

Really, it's more of a problem with _git_ on my end always cc-ing me. Although duplicate elimination on the list side makes sense it the combination of this default and git's behavior that makes for never-before-seen behavior that leads to questions. After all, how often is it that I cc myself when sending email to a list? (If ever, I'd bcc.) It's git's cc-ing that's introducing a new factor and making odd things happen.

Come to think of it, most (all?) of the lists I'm subscribed to have duplicate elimination turned off by default. Now that I think of it I was also surprised when my conversations with others that cc-ed the list did not show up on the list -- to be precise, _I_ was not able to see them show up on the list by looking at my email inbox. But that didn't really raise alarm bells in the same way that sending patches and then not "seeing" them on the list raises alarms. Patches represent real work and when they seem to disappear it's disconcerting. Because of the moderation delay (maybe?) by the time u-boot messages start showing up in my inbox I've already forgotten about the cc-ed conversation; but patches are memorable.

So perhaps the u-boot list default that has duplicate elimination turned on, where other lists do not, is factor contributing to the confusion. I've never had to think about configuring my list subscriptions. I send email; the list delivers the email to all it's recipients, including me. The operation is very transparent. When things did not work that way on the u-boot list it raised questions. My very first post was a patch. It took me about a month to realize that the patch was received by the rest of the list and by then I'd already re-sent it.

If I had confusion and Andy had confusion there must also have been some other people in the past who didn't speak up who had confusion too.

Anyway, problem solved. We know what's happening, what happened, and why. You can decide if there's any sort of issue that you want to address by frobbing defaults on your end.

I hope this has been more helpful than annoying.

Regards,

Karl kop@meme.com Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein

P.S. As long as we're on the subject of the list, the moderation delay was initially confusing when sending in my first post. (My first post was actually 2 emails, sent by git send-email --compose, so was 2 emails: a patch and a regular email. The regular email was, after delay, sent back to me by the list, the patch was not.) No getting around the moderation delay, just thought I'd mention it. Perhaps you could alter the list welcome message to note that the list is moderated. This won't help; nobody reads the instructions. :/ But at least you'll have something to point to if anybody complains.

P.P.S. It occurs to me that it might be less confusing if the list default was to not send emails back to the original sender, as well as having duplicate elimination turned on. This seems to me to be more consistent -- you never get messages you otherwise see. I can't say I like this as a default, I'm just saying it would be a more consistent user interface. It would not violate the principal of least surprise by treating messages potentially seen because of cc differently from messages seen otherwise.

Am 04.08.2012 18:55, schrieb Karl O. Pinc:

So perhaps the u-boot list default that has duplicate elimination turned on, where other lists do not, is factor contributing to the confusion. I've never had

Some mail-servers have that feature enabled by default too. E.g. cyrus-imapd (called duplicate delivery suppression there). So if you get a mail by cc and from a list, usually the one from list doesn't show up because it is delivered after the cc'ed one.

Regards,

Alexander

On 08/04/2012 11:58:23 AM, Karl O. Pinc wrote:

FYI. I got the above message twice. Probably because you sent the message To: me and Cc:-ed the list instead of sending the message To: the list and cc:-ing me.

No. I am wrong. I was confused. :-P

Sorry.

Karl kop@meme.com Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein