On Wed, Jul 04, 2007 at 04:02:43PM +0200, Wolfgang Denk wrote:
Let's look at the PC architecture, which is really supposed to be customized by dummy users. It just makes BEEEP if the memory init goes wrong. People designed it this way on purpose. I know that there are
Excellent example.
You have a better overview than I - can you estimate how many of the platforms u-boot supports are "embedded system like", i.e. SoC cpu, soldered RAM & NAND/NOR flash, vs. "PC like", i.e. you-need-to-initi- alize-the-north-and-southbridge-first-before-you-get-access-to-ttyS0?
When I look at the ports we did so far (about 20 different hardware platforms), they all fall into the first category.
Now please answer: how many people do you know who can use a BIOS for board bringup, software development and product customization in even a remotely similar way as you can do with U-Boot?
How many engineers do you how like to use a BIOS?
We agree on the fact that it is a pretty good feature to have early debugging, even before anything else works. It's just that, at the moment, it has the implication that the whole inner mechanics of u-boot cannot follow a simple device model, as proposed by our v2 code.
Take the time and play with it; we may even want to do a telco during the next days and Sascha can show you some of the goodies. The longer one plays with the code, the more one gets the impression that it is simply plain elegant. It just makes POFF! and most of the spagetti code implodes into something which looks nice and natural. At least that was the impression we got here at Pengutronix when Sascha first showed the results of his experiments. It resolves so many of the same old problems which came over and over again during the last years.
It would be a pita if the whole design wouldn't work just because of this early printk issue. So I hope we find a solution anybody can live with.
If a hardware manufacturer does so, surely nobody will blame the u-boot provider for that. If somebody forgets to solder the flash chips onto his board, nobody expects u-boot to print out a proper warning as well :-)
Yes, I do. Or if a flash chip falls of, etc.
So let's hope it is not the flash chip containing u-boot, or the CPU itself :-)
I assume the way we do the discussion now is really right - we throw in "it can be soooooo easy" ideas, you tell us the corner cases and then we iterate until everybody is happy :-)
Define "corner case".
Use cases which obviously never happened here but seem to be common to you.
Robert